Sanyo LED MOD

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Sanyo LED MOD

Post by kggf » Wed Sep 16, 2015 9:44 pm

Hi all,

I thought I would put something exciting on this form for now and if it gets deleted then so be it, I won’t post it again, but if it remains I’ll do my best to keep it up to date on the progress of my little project.

Well, I like to watch movies on the big screen, I mean big… I got a £30 projector from e-bay, cheep one from china and as you guessed, it was okay, but not as good as the projectors you see at work, school and so on.

So I thought I would do a little project.

I got my self this little baby from E-bay. They should be working and provide a good quality image. Got three of them for a bout £13 but the main issue is that they have no bulbs.

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No problem, I wanted to do some teardowns and see how these things work, and discovered a little thing called the 100 WATT LED light chip that should get one of these working.

Little information I found out. A normal projector bulb lasts for a bout 2000 hours and cost around £100 – £300 to replace.

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Not worth it. A 100Watt LED is about £3 – 5 and lasts 50,000 hours….

Yay, got a good thing going.

Then all the problems and safety stuff that I have to bypass, little electrical know-how and optic modification. This will be an interesting project.

OK to start of with I looked at the projector, output and such. I plan to modify this unit to take a HDMI cable and feed it through the VGA with an converter. I might embed this into the unit to make it simple. I have not decided yet and I will have it all powered from my computers PSU and run of a LED lamp and also have extra safe guards against dust.

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I want it to run of my Computers PSU because the cheap one has a 12v jack that I rigged to my computer, the cables are set-up and run fine, so this will be ideal than to have other mains cables cluttering the place, also it needs to be packed away before the wife comes down stairs and sees me slouched on the sofa!!!! Hahaha…

Okay, down to business.

Fist thing is first opening the unit.

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Once I cracked the lid off and removed the front I needed to find power supply and hack it to find out what voltages this unit uses. So with a meter I found out it uses 5v –5v and 15v.

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My computer can provide over 60A on the 12v rail. I’ll get to that part later.

Then I had to find the circuit called the ballast. This was the important part of the whole project. I have to make the main board of the projector think the original bulb is in the unit and working. This involved hacking the ballasts data cables and I made this relay circuit to turn on my LED light when it comes from china. The resister tells the board the bulb is working and the Projector works fine.

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Test relay unit. This will be added to the main PCB when I make it.
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I made an array of small 2W led's to test the image through the lens and make sure the projector boots up. In the dark everything seems to work as it should...

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The first time I shoved 15v through those LED and blew a few, the amps must be high, but sorted it out... Sorry about the pic of my LED array...

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The power supply and Ballast (Which ignites the filament inside the bulb and powers it) are separated and I continue to experiment with the power supply before I toss it. I found out that the main board shoves 3.3v to the power supply and in turn it activates another 15v rail on ribbon cable. I will make my own PCB with transistors to step-up my computers power supply and provide everything the projector wants. I should not blow up my PC…

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Next I will have to clean the imaging engine, light lenses and find out how the light chamber works. So I will post more soon, as well as me making the PCB Installing the LED with cooling systems and so on…

Stay tuned… Lots of junk coming from china to do this!
Last edited by kggf on Mon Nov 09, 2015 8:21 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: My big screen experimental project.......

Post by ginger » Thu Sep 17, 2015 8:24 am

Hey, Kggf. :)
Keep us updated.

Have a look here at other projects: http://www.instructables.com/howto/projector/

(I love instructables, I waste far too much time there!)

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Re: My big screen experimental project.......

Post by kggf » Thu Sep 17, 2015 7:35 pm

Stage 2: Cleaning.


I had to wait for the weather to get better, but once it did there was one best place in the home that you can use to clean optics and the projector. Yes It was outside in the garden. In the home there is so much dust, you might as well not bother, and not to think about the dust you will make.

The most important thing to do now was to give the projector a deep clean. When it was bought of ebay the unit was filthy with dust. This is a very good thing. It means the shop or owner of this unit had not opened it up and tried to tamper with it. So it’s a fresh unit with a problem that could be fixed, or moded.


Okay, down to work.

First thing I had to do was to remove the cover and expose the PCB.

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Then I removed the PCB and removed it completely.

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Once I removed the Power Supply the dirt really began to show itself.

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Then I removed the optical unit and it was impressive to handle. Heavy and very delicate… you will see why soon.

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I took pictures along this process so I know what I was doing and how to put the whole unit back together again. Handy when something falls of the desk. With the lens now easily assessable I began on the hardest part of the project. Cleaning the lens.

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In order to do this, I had to remove the lens unit from the optical array.

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Then the fun began.

Looking through the lens you can see the dirt inside it.

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Tearing down this unit was hard; the screws were placed at the sides and they whole assembly moved too. Each lens was removed, blown clean and there were some lenses that I could not clean without using lens cleaning fluid and lens wipes. Using tissue or cloth would scratch the lens and leave marks so this was painstaking work!

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Now came the hardest part of the cleaning, the cleaning of the optical array.

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From what I can see, there are three highly delicate and fine LCD panels in three colours Red Blue and Green. The light goes through these gets combined inside the prism and projected through the lenses. If the sides of these are dirty, it will distort the image. And they were filthy.

Cleaning time.

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One handy tool with not what you would expect. The cotton ends cannot be touch with your fingers otherwise the oil from your hand will smudge the LCD panels.

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Once they were as clean as I could. Remember I am no professional… so I did the best I could. I then reassembled the lease unit.

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Next came the optical chamber… Boy, this was easier to do as only plain light travels through this. No image to distort.

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Light is passed through the mirrors, lenses and diffused into different colors to pass through the LCD panels.

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But first, the light is diffused from the bulb, or the LED lights I rigged up. It gets evenly spaced out and focused through the lenses.

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One critical thing I found out is that one of the diffusion panels was burned as you can see on this image.

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It did not matter, I replaced it from one of the other spare projectors that did not work and replaced the diffuser with a good one. Now I was good to go.

One thing I noticed was this little thing in the middle of it all, from what I could tell it cut the light ability by 50%. If anyone knows why this grid was placed inside the light path please let me know. I have removed it for now and the light quality was better, even from my crapy LED I used for testing.

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As you can imagine, I messed up my desk something wicked!!!

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Once I cleaned all the mirrors and lenses, I activated the LED lights to see what it looked light. If you look closely you can see the different colors of light by a single light source.

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Once that was done, it was now off to clean the array of fans used to cool everything.

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This projector has a total of 6 12V fans that keep it cool. 4 of them are under the light array.

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Once I cleaned the fans (Pointless cleaning the lenses and LCD panels if the fans will only blow old dust over them…) I assembled the unit again.

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Finally I am ready for my Electrical components, Voltage booster, LED light and other things from china.

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I tested the unit to see if everything worked okay and it did…

And this is some of the tools I used…. Good stuff yea!!!!!!

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More to come when I get the stuff!!!!

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Re: My big screen experimental project.......

Post by MrX » Thu Sep 17, 2015 8:42 pm

Very impressive!

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Re: My big screen experimental project.......

Post by deadbodyman » Fri Sep 18, 2015 4:43 am

You have very nice hands like George Costanza. :clap

Not sure if the effort, time and money spent is worth it in today's standards and available technology that already exists, but looks like lots of fun.
Good on you. :clap

However, you should consider being a hand model :thumbs

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Re: My big screen experimental project.......

Post by kggf » Fri Sep 18, 2015 1:41 pm

Thanks for the compliment. I know there is more better options out there, but I am doing it for the fun and project. Also with a small test, the projected image is of very high quality, just have to get a bright light and have it all working as it should, you can't beat old teck...

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Re: My big screen experimental project.......

Post by kggf » Tue Oct 20, 2015 9:24 pm

Next Part!!!! LED install and Power.

Hi all, more updates for you.

So after waiting for what seemed forever to get all the components from china, I am now ready and willing to get this project moving.

First things first. One of the requirements I wanted was for this big baby to run of the computer 12v power supply. So I can run a single cable and keep everything neat. As I said before I have a huge 750W power supply and my computer hardly uses half of it. I have a crappy graphics card that does not use much amps and the fans don’t use that much too, they only use close to 1A on the 12v rail which can take over 60A.

Anyway, back to business, first I had to work out how the power management worked on this projector. As you can see from the image it used quite a lot.

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Basically most of the pins were doubled up to provide the amps and other pins were a feedback to the power supply. I grounded them using a resister and did tests, it all worked fine.

Next I discovered this projector uses 3 levels of voltages, starting with 15V 5v and –5 volts.

Now there was no way my computers power supply would pump out 15V without some help, the highest it would go was 12v So I used this baby.

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This is a power booster that can boost 12V all the way to 35V with some hacking I got it up to 70V before I blew a capacitor rated at 35V, smoke and hissing, not recommended, but after a replaced the capacitor I was ready to go.

To get the 5v from the 12V input supply I simply used a transistor that downgrades it and to get the –5V this was a whole new story altogether.

To get –5 Volts I could not get it from the normal 12V supply. It was not possible. So I had to dive into my computer power supply and tap the –12V rail and use that. I used a simple LM337 to get -5.80V I needed for the projector. I used a new cable to double the 12V cable so in total I have two twin cables coming out of my computer, I will install connectors later to the back of my PC to make it clean and also attached them to the sound and VGA cable for the projector.

Now back to the projector.

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Once I have established the pin out of this connector I extended the cables to give me working room.

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Using an old floppy drive ribbon cable I cut that up and soldered it to the power plug using heatsrink tubes.

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Once it was heated up and cooled down, the connector was done.

I think assembled all the components to create the array of voltages. It was a little botched up, blew a few components and had to find the right resister value, but once I did, the projector booted up just fine using my computer 12V supply. Yay!!!!

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One thing I noticed is that the 5V regulator got very hot, so I attached a huge heat sink and also learned that this projector must be using more than 3A on the 5Vrail… Strange, I thought it would draw a lot from the 15v, those components are not even warm.

The –5V regulator did get a little warm, but I will attach a heat sink later in the final PCB build.

With the core power sorted out I then moved on to the big issue.

The LED light.

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As you can see, the LED light is attached to a heat sink designed for this light. I’m not sure if it was though, I checked the led and powered it up, it gets hot very fast and the heat sink seems to suffer, but with a fan I guess it could work.

Anyway….

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The next step was to attach the whole LED unit into the projector light assembly I have to drill out some holes to make it fit.

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Once it was installed everything fit nicely in without any issues.

To help with the light, I attached some reflectors and lenses to the led, put tinfoil around the light chamber and screwed it back onto the projector.

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Once it was put back to gather, I tested the projector and it seemed to work fine. I have to admit, the light quality was lower then I expected, it was no better then the other LED projector I got, however the image quality was far seperourer then ever before… it was amazing. Using the projector at night should make it brighter.

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Also I was using a small 12V power supply to power the LED using the booster, so going full voltage would cause it to stop working. I have connected it directly to the computer with a much more bright light before, but I did not test it on this occasion.

That will be left for the next chapter when I make the PCB with temperature-controlled circuit that will turn on fans if the components get too hot. Very easy to make… Just tested it and it works…

Stay tuned.

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Re: My big screen experimental project.......

Post by raffe » Wed Oct 21, 2015 4:06 pm

:rocka You know your stuff! :ibnerd

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Re: My big screen experimental project.......

Post by kggf » Wed Oct 21, 2015 5:37 pm

I'm messing around experimenting, I really have no idea what I am really doing, but learning about all the typs of components and what they do is thrilling......

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Re: Sanyo LED MOD

Post by kggf » Mon Nov 09, 2015 10:01 pm

Hi all,

Small update on this project. Normally it would help if you get hold of the schematics and plans for the original projector you are working on. Since I was lazy and did not bother, there were a few things I could have used, tricked around and got right. The 5V power rail that I thought powers some of the lower units in the projector was not 5V, but 6V, so I was using a underpowered transistor and that’s why it was getting hot. So I ordered some new proper 6V transistors and hopefully they will make the projector work better when they finally come

Don’t get me wrong, I have most of the projector up and running fine, I have a clear image, bright in dark and it seems to be of incredible quality, but more on that to come.

Now on the power side of things and PCB making.

First things first, with the jumble of cables I had when testing the power requirements and testing to see if the unit worked, I planned out everything onto a PCB drawing.

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I could not have cables freely loose and insulate taped together, so I decided to create my own PCB board that will take my computers power output and divide it, boost it and distribute it into the projector.

Once I drew out all the paths to each component, I got myself a sheet of plane pcb with one side compliantly covered in copper. I then used a PCB marker to mark out all the traces I need to transmit power, like individual cables. The thicker tracks are to carry more amps due to set-up converters and supply.

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To make the PCB I dissolved the PCB in ferric chloride that removed any copper that was not covered. This was an interesting experience :)

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PCB Dissolving

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Once the dissolving was completed, I then was left with this

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I then removed the black marker pen and look how pretty this PCB is… Okay, not perfect but it gets the job done.

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I then drilled the holes to poke the components through, getting a small drill bit was hard, I used a 1mm drill bit and I think a 0.5mm drill bit would have worked better… But I worked with I had.

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After making sure all the tracks were isolated and not touching each other, I then soldered the components onto the board.

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I created the PCB to fit into the original container that contained the original power supply and ballast. It snuggled in perfectly…

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The boosters needed a high amperage source. So I used some mains house cable to create the perfect pathways as you can see in this image.

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Once I had it all screwed in, and placed a fan inside the power supply to cool the 5V Transistor, I then put the whole unit into the projector and connected the LED lamp.

Now a few things:

I finally found a PDF document that had schematics and plans for how the projector worked, the required voltages and amps to power it. Would have been handy to have this at the start so I could have made things differently. Like getting the right parts for example, making the standby function work and so on. But after getting the plans I learned about the 6v requirement, and what all the pins were used for, below is a snippet of the schematic.

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Now I must admit, I was impressed at how much information was put into this schematic, wiring diagrams and the placement of every single component in the projector, you don’t get detail like that anymore.

One major factor in this PCB build was the use of temperature sensors that monitored the LED Lap and power supply. The temperature sensor monitors that heat and then increases the voltage to the fans to make them spin faster or slower depending on a resister value. I used a independent fan as I did not want to tamper with the original fans inside the projector as they were monitored by the controller chip. Tampering with the fans would cause the projector to stop working very quickly.

Anyway, to make the temperature circuit, I used a LM317 transistor (I love these :) ), a 8.2K resister to set the right setting and a 10K thermo resister which decreases resistance when heated. With this configuration the fans turn on perfectly at the right time and spin down when the LED cools. I mounted the heat sensor to the LED heat sink and one to the transistor and all worked better then I thought. I believe this could be used for computer CPU’s to control fan speed which I might do in the future.

One problem I encountered is that the long cable that stretches from my computer rig to the projector looses a lot of amps down the cable. So when the LED booster is activated, the LED does not reach its full brightness, but stalls. I decided to get a more advanced booster with an amp control module and attach it to my pc. So for the lamp, I now output 19V from the computer and then use the booster inside the projector to boost it up or down for the lamp. I use this feature on the Projector to turn the lamp on and off, dim it or make it bright for when I turn the projector off.

When the projector is shut down, the cooling fans spin rapidly for 2 minutes to cool the lamp. I use the dimmer switch to turn the lamp down, as it does not go off. The dimmer gives me lots of options and it’s come in quite handy.

I had a job configuring the voltage and amps from the main booster inside my computer, too little voltage and the lamp would not work. Too much voltage or amps and the LED would blow, or my computers 12v supply would be drained too much and the Projector would stop working and shut itself down. I managed to get the perfect balance and it works perfectly now.

In my next part, I will post some images of what I did to the projector, the image brightness and my thoughts.

Stay tuned…

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Re: Sanyo LED MOD

Post by kggf » Sat Dec 19, 2015 5:55 pm

Final things...

I’ve had my projector up and running for a little while now, watching movies, anime and series at night in the pitch dark and for a 100W LED the image and light quality is not too bad. I had to change some of the red, green, blue settings and some movies appear dark so the brightness settings on the video need to be changed, but I think that’s because of the low light output, but more of that later.

So here are the final build parts.

……

So to finish this part off, here is the continuation of this project. First I could not whack the LED in there by itself. I found a lens assembly available on E-bay for this type of LED so I got a bunch of them and fitted one of them to the LED to focus the light into the light chamber.

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To isolate the light and have maximum effect, I lined part of the light tunnel with foil sticky tape.

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This allowed the light to stay in the channel as best as possible, and stopped any light leaking out into the projector case and out into the dark room. It worked very well. I also made a wire holder to keep the LED and lenses together.

Sadly the LED gets extremely hot and the current fan inside the projector was not suitable to cool the LED heat sink. So I had to put a external fan, cut a section of the case and had the fan controlled independently by a thermo resister so the fan would keep the air flowing, even if the projector thinks its cool inside.

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It doesn’t look too bad and I used some foil tape to seal the edges and tidy it up. Once the projector was cleaned and ready to go the whole thing worked perfectly.

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Here are the results of some of the programs I watched. Sorry for the poor quality, the room was dark and the camera I was using was not meant for dark environments…

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Sadly, there was an issue that I am trying to sort out. For some reason the first LED burned out. Not sure if it was a faulty LED or I installed the heat sensor for the fan in the wrong place on the heat sink. So when I put a new 100W led into the thing, I moved the sensor closer to the led and it seems to last longer.

With everything working as it should be, this is how to modify a Sanyo Projector with a LED and use your computers power at the same time.

BUT… For me, 100W LED projector is not for me. I want MORE!!!! More LIGHT, MORE Power.

So after endlessly looking through E-bay I found the 300W LED chip. Same size, same voltage, more powerful… YES…. I think its time for a 300W LED Projector MOD! Never been done before… HAHAHA.

As for a quick demo of the difference in light, look at this image.

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The blue image is the 100W LED projector I finished. It’s okay, but hard to see with the room lights on.

The green image is the 300W led used as a test through a spare light engine of the same model projector. Remember I had two spare to mess around with. Twice powerful and I believe it can be much more brighter because the green lens was very dirty.

But a 300W led gets backing hot. This will require a custom-made heat sink and massive power alteration. Also I cannot power the LED with the computer. The amps required are too much and yes I tried it… Not a good idea. But I did get a 350W 36V power supply that I will rig up later.

There is more to come on my update. I will make a separate post later when I get more parts from china…. Stay tuned…

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Re: Sanyo LED MOD

Post by Bohanna » Sat Dec 19, 2015 11:18 pm

Just saw this post. Let me save you LOTS of time and effort . You will NEVER get the kind of brightness level out of a 100 watt LED because the focal point is WAYYYY to wide. The same applies to a metal halide parking lot lamp. The light source in projectors comes from a 1 to a 1.5 MM UHP arc gap beam. You can try to use an HID headlight with a 12 volt ballast but it will still be too dull. I have spent thousands of dollars and hours trying to do what you are doing and it WON"T WORK. You are far better off getting a new lamp since the prices have come down a lot. Also you want to put up a white image like the google home page and see if you have any yellowing or gray/bluish tint in the picture. If you see any you may as well throw it out because the polorizers and the blue LCD panel is failing. Good luck!! Bohanna

Here is a better explanation of the light path its later in the video (about 5 minutes in). Best of luck!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1pkCavwGgA

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Re: Sanyo LED MOD

Post by kggf » Sun Dec 20, 2015 10:52 am

Thanks for the info Bohanna. at the moment the image seems to be fine in a dark room. I have a LED projector from china and this 100W LED mod is much more brighter and clearer than that cheap piece of crap, so I am happy with the initial results.

There are a few things different from the video. The lens used was designed for the led, and I compacted the LED and the lens inside the light chamber for maximum effect. There is no problems with the image, no discoloration and the Google page loads fine, or any image appears fine on the screen. The color is even all around. It could be the sanyo projector is a lot more easier to mod then other projectors I'm not too sure. However I will upgrade it to a 300W LED and see how that works. It should get the desired brightness I need.

at the end of the day its a fun project I am messing around with.

OTHER THINGS.

Just a few other things I found out while messing around. Do not use the projectors original power supply to power the 100W led. It needs 35V at 4amps. To transfer 15V or lower from the power supply it will eat up over 10Amps from the power supply through a booster. A projector power supply could manage about 3 amps before blowing up. So to power a LED it will need to be a external source.

LED's 100W or 300W get very hot. Need good cooling and fans. You will also need a independent temperatures sensor as the projectors internal system won't detect the heat from the led. The original lamp gets scorching hot so the projector is calibrated to that.

The type of LED you need is a pure white LED. Warm white will not do. It needs to be in the 6000k light range for the projector to work.

About 40 - 60% of the input light gets blocked by the polorisers. The polorisers allow light only in one direction only. Light from LED or whatever is scattered in all angles. So some will be blocked. So if you use a 100W led expect output light to be half that.

Make sure your lenses, LED panels and lenses are clean. If its dirty the image will be crap.

The projection screen and lense distance would decrease the light quality, so be wary of that.

From what I can gather, the technology inside a professional projector is far more advanced and better quality then a cheep LCD LED projector from china. The one I got was rubbish, you could see the pixels and the light quality was not that good. Basically they used a mobile phone screen, stuck a LED behind it and squeezed the image through the cheapest lens they could find. So check before you buy, and if you want to have fun, get a professional projector with no bulb from E-bay and have fun.

One more thing. The projector I worked with had two ballast input data cables. one is digital and one is analog. The ballast input data cables need to be hacked to fool the projector into thinking there is a working lamp, otherwise it will shut down. On the motherboard I found two ports. The original ballast I had used the digital connection so it could not be hacked. but luckily there was a analog connection that could be shorted. So before you panic, check to see if there is a 5 pin connection near the digital connection you are shorting.

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Re: Sanyo LED MOD

Post by kggf » Thu Feb 11, 2016 10:34 pm

Just a small update. I've been experimenting with a 300W LED at the moment it it provides perfect results, perfect brightness and clarity, quite surprising really, it looked like it solved the problem, but it turned out that the COB chip design is seriously flaud in that when the die heats up, and cools, it pulls at the linkages between the LED'S causing them to split, then the LED will flicker with loss of light. I am currently looking for alternative and also experimenting with voltages and heat to see if I can get the perfect combination for lightness and LED life. Basically if I can get the LED to function normally, it should last forever without the need to change and LED again.

I'll post more when I have results.

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Re: Sanyo LED MOD

Post by Bohanna » Fri Feb 12, 2016 6:47 pm

Like I said earlier. The focal point of the LED is WAY Too wide and all you will do with a more powerful LED is create a cozy heat box. If I were you I would experiment with an outside the projector set up first and see if you can get a TIGHT pinpoint beam. If you can do that you might have a chance using a mirror but until you can get a real narrow focused beam you are wasting your time. I have had to find this out the hard way. Best of Luck!!!

BTW- look at the end of this video so you can see how tight the beam has to be!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBqku0umbVY

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Re: Sanyo LED MOD

Post by raffe » Sat Feb 13, 2016 10:07 pm

Good work kggf! Keep posting your progress!

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Re: Sanyo LED MOD

Post by kggf » Sun Feb 14, 2016 6:37 pm

Thanks raffe.

The condenser lens and reflector I have shown on some posts above are critical for the LED to work. I used mirrors to get the light beam narrow but even using a 300W led gave poor results. Using the condenser lens and reflector that comes with a standured 100W LED aimed the light tremendously.

Like I said before, the 300W LED is the right for the job, the image is bright and usable for watching and reading things on the screen, so I think I solved that part and its a variable replacement to the old bulb. The only issue is the heat created by the LED. I believe my heatsink I made might not be suitable because its not drawing the heat away from the copper bar I have the LED attached to so I will build a better one. and do more experiments.

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Re: Sanyo LED MOD

Post by Bohanna » Wed Feb 17, 2016 7:18 pm

If you want an easier projector to work on get your hands on one of the older sanyo PLC-9000NA's or the proxima 9300 series projectors since the lamp is a side load with no obstructions and you have lots more room to work. This doesn't change the fact that the 100 and 300 watt Led's that you can buy on Ebay will not product the pinpoint of light beam that the single chip cree xlm's will. In simpler terms you are trying to use a hose that set on spray instead of one that is set on narrow beam. Its a beast but much easier to work on. The there option is use three white cree's behind each of the RGB panels so you don't lose intensity as it travels down the light path to the optical block

here is link to what one looks like:

http://www.projectorcentral.com/Sanyo-PLC-9000NA.htm

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