Please stop using (in conversion) and sharing videos in the .mkv format!

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Deathbliss
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Please stop using (in conversion) and sharing videos in the .mkv format!

Post by Deathbliss » Wed Jul 30, 2008 12:07 pm

OK, so why is this such a big deal? Simple. You can't watch .mkv videos on anything other than specialized equipment. For example, you can't watch them on your PS3 or on your Xbox 360. If you don't have a DVR - is that the right name? You can only watch the videos on your computer and its tiny little monitor.

Oh, well if that's the case just convert them you say! I spent the last few months trying to do just that. You can't convert 100% of these files either. Thee area few which you can convert over, but even when you can it can take up to DAYS - literally DAYS - to convert them! I've tried all the programs too - Super, WinFF, those specialized tools for Xbox 360 conversion, Red Kawa (screwed up my network connections so bad it took me a week to fix it) - EVERYTHING. I've downloaded and tried every tool from Doom 9, Video Help, Sourceforge, and CNET Downloads! NONE work on 100% of the files - more like %50 - and ALL take hours.

Your next response is... Well you don't have to convert it - just De-mux/Re-mux those files! WRONG! As of a month ago the best tools I found for this process worked on about %10 of the files. All of these De-muxers - pro and free - fail with the majority of the .mkv files. You simply can't re-mux the majority of these into another container format like .wmx or .avi.

What does work? The ONE and ONLY solution is ConvertXToDVD. This program will convert a .mkv into DVD ready files which can then be burned onto a disc. The menu system in this program sucks BALLS but it works. Wandering off subject... The only good program for the complete creation and customization of DVDs which I have found is Nero Vision 4 - NO LATER VERSION - NV 5 has a really sucky interface. But NV 4 is AWESOME, except - getting back on subject - it can't really handle .mkv files.

So great you tell me, just use ConvertX, burn to a DVD, and you're done! Problem solved! WRONG! I don't have a DVD burner right now, and if I did I wouldn't want to spend $50.00 on a bunch of discs - even if I got the more expensive RW ones. Plus ConvertX doesn't always get the 5.1 audio right, and I hate using it - I really do - and it still takes a long time.

You know what I do with videos? I copy them onto a flash drive, insert into my 360, and BAM! It's done. I paid $20.00 + tax for a 4 gig flash drive the other day. Just $20.00! Now I can enjoy the higher quality videos with better picture and sound - provided that aren't in a .mkv format! This is what works for me, and its the most efficient and cost-effective method. Anyone with half a brain does it this way, unless they have or can afford fancy equipment.

The final reason not to use .mkv? The tools are sketchy at best for this format. It needs a few more years to mature, for good free tools to appear - ESPECIALLY working De-muxers which save time. Until then it just shouldn't be used. Why in the world would you want to encode in this format anyway? XviD is universally accepted, and the quality is just fine - in fact you can completely control it. Same thing applies to WMV and H264. All easy to use formats that are universally accepted everywhere. All of them can provide as high a quality as you like. There really isn't any advantage to not using them. In fact I fail to see any advantage to the .mkv format at all!

Well you're welcome to try to convince me why using the .mk format is a good idea, but comparing file sizes, audio and video quality, compatibility, and toolsets I'm afraid .mkv looses. In todays modern, high-tech world the least common denominator has to be removed to find a standard. If we didn't have any standards we'd have confusion all over the place . They are necessary to remove confusion and increase compatibility, and this is a good thing. So lets get rid of the LCD here - .mkv video files!

Thanks!
Last edited by Deathbliss on Wed Jul 30, 2008 2:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by dannalboon » Wed Jul 30, 2008 12:48 pm

You seem to be complaining about something that you are getting for free. If you don't like mkv format then I suggest only obtaining avi files. It's a bit of a "no-brainer" solution. I am also sure that the people who go to the effort to rip these for everyone else make it mainly playable on computers and not for mobile devices or game consoles.

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Post by n7of9 » Wed Jul 30, 2008 1:07 pm

i'm sure mkv has it's advantages - i don't know what they are because i have never looked into it (i think it can handle multiple audio streams?)

and mostly i agree with your missives about mkv, i too avoid it for various reasons, but really, your post is a tad absurd...you don't like it so you request people stop using it?

a small percentage of the files posted on STF are made by our users (and we thank them heaps for that), and the remainder are sourced elsewhere and shared here and on ed2k (and we thank them heaps for that too)

but do you really think that you requesting people stop using and sharing it is going to achieve something? maybe there is something i have misunderstood, but are you REALLY asking the good people of STF to stop providing something because you don't like it?

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Post by skorpion » Wed Jul 30, 2008 1:13 pm

The whole point of the mkv container is to get round the outdated and inefficient avi container. If all you want is XviD audio and mp3/AC3 audio, then yes, use avi, but if you want better video compression like 264 and better audio compression like AAC, then the only container is mkv.

You say you "have problems converting". I never have, I've taken many 264 video streams and converted to either XviD or DVD compliant video. I've taken ACC and converted to AC3. You can't do all conversions with 1-click solutions like ConvertXToDVD. I gave up on any 1-click conversions years ago as most don't work or have some side issue like out of sync audio.

Why on earth would you ever want to change 5.1 audio regardless. I would never change 5.1 audio, just extract and re-mux. Who the hell wants stereo audio from a 5.1 source ?

The main advantage I see with mkv format is the quality. An mkv with 264 video and AAC 5.1 audio can fit into 350Mb and be of the same quality as a 1.4Gb XviD video and AC3 5.1 audio avi.

No one is forcing you to take mkv files, in fact, all my releases are XviiD and MP3/AC3, but I still download mkv files as the quality will always be good.

I remember when XviD came out and it was slammed as being crap in comparison to DivX3, but where is DivX now ?

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Post by markEg » Wed Jul 30, 2008 1:18 pm

yip, exactly - okay, u dont like the format for its various drawbacks... But jeez man, what a huge speil complaining about something you dont pay a penny for...

Heres a solution, if you dont like matroska video - dont downolad it...Simple.

Oh, heres another solution - if it upsets you that much, that you dont get the format you want - well a trip to the shops and a shell out of 30 - 40 bucks will get u a nice blu-ray film that will play fine on your PS3 fine.

Why not actually say "thanks" to the people who release these movies for you to enjoy without you spending a sigle cent, instead of moaning about wot you can get (if you u want it) for free.

Do you have ANY clue to the work these guys do in rleasing films for us? Obvviously not!

If I watch a film on my laptop - regardless of format, I simply use an 8 quid S-Video lead going from my PC to my TV - that works good enough for me.

Some people though = never happy...

Just remember though ---> the world does NOT revole around you :roll:

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Post by n7of9 » Wed Jul 30, 2008 1:20 pm

skorpion wrote: I remember when XviD came out and it was slammed as being crap in comparison to DivX3, but where is DivX now ?
yes i remember that too actually

hasn't mkv been around for at least 4 years or so?

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Post by fsm_derek » Wed Jul 30, 2008 1:23 pm

I'm not pro with mkv format either but I know a little about it. Mkv containers allow multiple streams for audio and you can also embed subs directly into them. They allow higher resolution and bitrate at a much smaller file size, that means you can get better quality movies at a smaller file size. The quality is ridiculous for that size and I promise you won't be dissapointed....just get a video card for your pc that has S-Video out and hook it up to your TV. Or if you have an LCD, just hook it up with the VGA :)

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Post by EclipseGSX » Wed Jul 30, 2008 2:13 pm

Couldn't have said it better myself, skorpion.

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Post by Deathbliss » Wed Jul 30, 2008 2:40 pm

To be perfectly clear I'm not, "complaining about something I get for free" and I can't simply "stop using .mkv files." I'm a audiophile - I want the best picture and sound I can get. Finding a .avi movie at the usual 700 meg size with 5.1 sound is almost impossible. In fact I've only encountered this once with Dark Floors. Usually it's stereo audio I have to fake to 5.1 on my receiver. I would much rather get the larger 1.5 gig .avi files with better sound, and now in fact I can with my larger flash drive. Size is irrelevant when considering all the other variables.

I'm posting this because I see a disturbing trend towards using .mkv files. I see them for episodes of Stargate Atlantis, I see them for episodes of the Family Guy, and many of the higher quality versions of movies have been done EXCLUSIVELY in them. So I have to pass these over and use lower quality sound (my man concern) because someone decided they had to use .mkv instead of using their head and sticking with a more common format. The main issue here is that it is not necassary for every high quality file to be in .mkv, and the size difference is really not all that substantial. You can compress to maybe half the size using a .mkv file. Big deal! Only a small group of people will be able to play the video!

Finally as I said this is not a complaint. Am I sitting here whining, hollering, and screaming about the .mkv format? No. I've simply stated a problem I have and supported it with facts based on personal experience. I'm appreciative of all the work the folks behind these files do, and that they have shared them - I really am. But I will not allow them ignorance regarding the issues behind using this format. I didn't post this just because it bugs me. It's a problem for many other people too and a legitimate concern.

If folks want to keep using this format for whatever reason they have, they really need to get the tools out there to handle it. In fact the folks behind this format should have really developed the tools for dealing with it comprehensively first before they ever released it. As it is now it's very much like a cool new picture format that no image editor can open. That right there proves it is a format that should not be used - even if it has been around for a while - because the tools aren't there to work with it, and it looks as though they will never be provided. Why use a format you can't easily and quickly de-mux/re-mux or convert?

skorpian:
I'm glad that you have, "taken many 264 video streams and converted to either XviD or DVD compliant video. I've taken ACC and converted to AC3." Perhaps you would care to COMPREHENSIVELY and THOROUGHLY explain how you have managed to do something that I wasn't able to do in several months of work, after following a half dozen or so tutorials and using about two dozen programs, which also in fact nobody else has been able do if the many posts in various video forums regarding the .mkv format are any indication? It must be nice to have this exclusive knowledge but I would love to see it shared as it would solve a lot of problems!

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Post by skorpion » Wed Jul 30, 2008 3:29 pm

Deathbliss wrote:Perhaps you would care to COMPREHENSIVELY and THOROUGHLY explain how you have managed to do something that I wasn't able to do in several months of work, after following a half dozen or so tutorials and using about two dozen programs, which also in fact nobody else has been able do if the many posts in various video forums regarding the .mkv format are any indication? It must be nice to have this exclusive knowledge but I would love to see it shared as it would solve a lot of problems!
For video, install the latest ffdshow and Avisynth then create a .avs script in notepad along the following line:

Code: Select all

directshowSource("<drive>:\<directory>\<filename1>",audio=false)
If the film you downloaded is split over multiple files use:

Code: Select all

directshowSource("<drive>:\<directory>\<filename1>")+directshowSource("<drive>:\<directory>\<filename2>",audio=false)
Now pass the .avs as the source to an encoder such as TMPGEnc or the one I use is CCE.

For the audio, if it's in AC3 format, just extract with MKVToolnix. If the audio is AAC, you will need to convert to AC3 while keeping all the channels. I use Graphedit for that as I've never found anything better. This is how I do it:

AAC to AC3 Fast GraphEdit/ffdshow way:

Jon multiple mkv files with “MKVtoolnix” “mkvmerge GUI”. Use mkvmerge GUI to remove tracks such as additional audio and subtitles if not required.

-start graphedit

-drag&drop MKV-file in GraphEdit window

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Remove all the video filters etc. and everything after the ffdshow Audio Decoder :

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Select:
Menu graph
Insert new filter
DirectShowFilter
Filewriter
and "insert filter", choose filename "convert.ac3"

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-right click on “ffdshow Audio Decoder”
Filter Properties

Set Resample as follows:

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Set output as follows:

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Now connect “ffdshow Audio Decoder” to the file writer "convert.ac3" filter

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click play to start conversion and wait until its finished

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To test the AC3 file, use mkvmerge GUI and add the video from the original mkv to the ac3 audio. Save a a new mkv and test.
Last edited by skorpion on Thu Jul 31, 2008 1:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by $hifty » Wed Jul 30, 2008 3:42 pm

Why not just make it simple, if you dont like mkv's dont download em problem solved

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Post by someboy » Wed Jul 30, 2008 6:22 pm

http://www.popcornhour.com/onlinestore/

treat yourself this xmas!

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Post by stevenrollastercoon » Wed Jul 30, 2008 8:21 pm

wow their are a lot of retards on this forum. Complaining about mkv cause it's not universally accepted.

Guess what it is. People don't want avi cause of it's shit quality and lack of features. I haven't touched a avi file in years because the quality sucks.

WMV :lol:

You buy a shitbox360 and a shittyPS3 and shittyDVR and u expect to play them. When all along all what u need is a $20 cord to connect ur PC to ur TV.

Just STFU and quit complaining u dumba$$ noob

:lol2

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Post by $hifty » Wed Jul 30, 2008 8:53 pm

Hey my ps3 rules altho i agree with the rest of your statement

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Post by skorpion » Wed Jul 30, 2008 11:26 pm

stevenrollastercoon wrote:wow their are a lot of retards on this forum. Complaining about mkv cause it's not universally accepted.

Guess what it is. People don't want avi cause of it's [censored] quality and lack of features. I haven't touched a avi file in years because the quality sucks.

WMV :lol:

You buy a shitbox360 and a shittyPS3 and shittyDVR and u expect to play them. When all along all what u need is a $20 cord to connect ur PC to ur TV.

Just STFU and quit complaining u dumba$$ noob

:lol2
Classic! an absolute classic! I have pissed my pants!

Note to mods: Please move the stevenrollastercoon comment to the "Classics!" section, I've not laughed this much in years :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Post by n7of9 » Thu Jul 31, 2008 9:20 am

someboy wrote:http://www.popcornhour.com/onlinestore/

treat yourself this xmas!
that is some serious awesomage :)
skorpion wrote: Note to mods: Please move the stevenrollastercoon comment to the "Classics!" section, I've not laughed this much in years :lol: :lol: :lol:
i'm just waiting for this to be over, this entire thread is ending up in classics :P

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Post by kltpzyxm » Thu Jul 31, 2008 10:22 am

sorry to dissapoint you, but mkv is the format of the future, it offers everything you have on a dvd, but in a compressed form (multi audio, multi subs, commentary tracks, etc...) all in one file
there's a reason why they've been selling divx players so cheap the last few years: coz they know divx (& by that I mean avi , not the codec) is gonna die & they want to make a quick buck off it

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Post by Deathbliss » Sat Aug 02, 2008 11:50 am

skorpian:
First off let me say thanks! I really appreciate you rising to my challenge and sharing this information, and you did so in a completely polite manner! I wish there were more formers out there like you!

To everyone else, in no particular order:
I can't just not download .mkv files. If, for example, I wish to aquuire the best release of prom night I have to deal with a two part .mkv file. Otherwise I have to live with crappy sound. This is another one of those not much of a choice situations.

If .mkv files are the future, why aren't there any easy to use, fully functional, one click solutions to convert a .mkv file to another format? I mean one-click solutions that don't take a rocket scientist to use, don't mess up the audio or picture, and work on all .mkv files? You know why? Simple. The .mkv format sucks - it's about as user-friendly as an archaic build of Linux running on an equally archaic computer! If it's truly, "the format of the future" whee in the hell are the tools for it?

Hand in glove with this, and using skorpian's excellent tutorial as an example, that right there should show you how crappy the .mkv format is. Look at all the hoops you have to jump through just to get a file in a different container format!

But let's provide an example here proving my point, shall we? Would you download and use a program that had a clunky, ugly interface, whihc didn't work properly, had limited functionality, and was super hard to use, VS a program that did the exact same thing 100% correctly whihc not only looked nice but was also a joy to use? You would throw away the first program without a moment's thought. So why would you choose .mkv, whihc has almost no proper tools and is hard to convert, over .avi or .wmv which has hundreds of fully functional, professional programs and is a breeze to convert? Got you there, didn't I?

To the name callers, .mkv fanb0ys, etc., you guys aren't worth responding to. It would be like trying to reason with a 5 year old child eating a mudpie that thinks its candy no matter what you tell them. There's no point, and if you want dirt in your mouth that's your problem!

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Post by n7of9 » Sat Aug 02, 2008 1:05 pm

in the interests of keeping this thread as hilarious as it currently is, and not have it degrade to the inevitable further ridiculing of the OP, i now pronounce thee CLASSIC...hip hip hooray

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